I think today there are many men afraid of what they should say when complimenting a woman for fear that it might be misinterpreted. That’s sad when a woman has done a great job and isn’t recognized for it. The solution begins with honesty. If a man wishes to praise a woman for her work, do it as if she were a man and not as if she might interpret it as being flirtatious. The more significant problem is when men and women work together at the same level. They spend several hours together, and perhaps the man is interested in her beyond her job, or the woman is interested in the man. Again, the solution, you need is to be honest. Men and also women need to stop playing games they sometimes play while at work which send mixed and wrong signals. So keep it simple and as I said, keep it honest. That’s my policy running my company and any involvement I have working with outside organizations. When in doubt, ask a legitimate… Read more »

This is another socio-political problem, not exclusive to retail. Biases exist in sex, race, age, and religion. Eradicating bias has been going on for years and it has been slower than necessary. We are now reaching a semi-revolutionary stage when it comes to eradicating bias against women. Leaders have to first recognize and accept that it exists, then they have to take a pro-active, ethical stand, then they have to implement the policies that are clear and repeated like a mantra within the organization. Starbucks just came to that conclusion the hard way. It is about time.

Wow, thanks for sharing so much with full transparency. I am proud to be part of an organization that blazed the trail for women to achieve the most senior executive positions for more than 80 years. This has everything to do with the individual organization’s culture, as opposed to the industry in which it operates. For the 17 years I’ve been here, I have had far more female managers, and their managerial uplines have mostly been female.

The point is, this has never been a challenge. We just do it. We don’t highlight it so much to make it seem like something strange or rare. We just make it happen. ALL organizations need to do this. Find the best “man” for the jobs, and you’ll quickly find it quite often isn’t a man.

I actually think retail has gone backwards when it comes to putting women in high places. Earlier in my career, there were a lot more VPs who were women than I see today. But the C-suite has always been a man’s world. The tech industry also seems to have gone backwards. I never had any troubles advancing … I think I scared them all too much or something, and the last time a guy quit because I was a woman when he found out he was supposed to report to me was 1982. Back in those days I learned techniques to ferret out sexist moments in board rooms. Too graphic to describe in a family blog, but let’s say I had techniques for men who acted inappropriately. I have a black friend who said “Hey … it’s Black History Month. The other 11 are white history months.” So I kind of do think it’s condescending. It’s really a question of talent. If you want the best talent, particularly one that reflects who your customer is,… Read more »

Kudos to Warren for tackling this topic in such a forthright manner. Retail has traditionally had a massive female presence — possibly outnumbering males and everyone was okay with it. That was when it was acceptable for women to be clerks and sales girls (girls!) and occupy other low-end positions while “the men” led the companies. It’s difficult to place blame on the industry for that because society worked that way everywhere. Now women are in a much better position, but I’m regularly reminded, not an equal one. I don’t understand why. I’m married to an equally (OK more!) intelligent and talented woman that has insights into areas I don’t. I have no reason to believe women as a group are any different. So WTF is wrong with men that need to keep women down? It’s their own weaknesses and insecurities. I don’t believe anyone wants women promoted solely on the basis of their sex. That would be disrespectful to deserving and undeserving applicants alike. But as men, we need to quash any biases and… Read more »

If Warren Thayer wrote that after the June issue of Frozen & Refrigerated Buyer’s cover story about outstanding women there will be a subsequent issue about outstanding men, I’d have more confidence in his understanding and efforts. The goal is to reach equality, not segment. Separately, I think if there were two such cover stories the difference in the career profiles of “outstanding” men and women would be fascinating and insightful. This past Sunday on “60 Minutes,” the CEO of Salesforce, Marc Benioff, described his shock that in his company known for being a great place to work there would be pay inequality for women. Further he noticed how there were few women in his company’s leadership meetings. He instituted a program to reconcile the pay and status differences. The first year it seemed to be working and he thought it was going to be OK moving forward. However, in year two he discovered there was still a sizable pay gap. He recognizes that it’s tough to combat what is culturally based and institutionalized in… Read more »

In my field, the consumer goods and retail industry, where I work directly with quite literally thousands of women and men and having met with and spoken to so many women on these topics, I dare say that our space might be ahead of most industries. Since approximately 1977, I have had the opportunity in the CPG Retail Industry to work for, with, hire, or deploy, a rapidly increasing number of women at all levels, in nearly every capacity, and in companies I have worked for, with, or have been associated with, women are paid comparable salaries to men with similar responsibilities. The exception that I have observed over the years are in family-owned and operated businesses, where structures are off the charts. I do not presume to deny that inequality and harassment exist, because both issues do, in large numbers, including in the CPG retail business. However, I don’t believe that the root of the problems will be resolved by government intervention, intimidation of males, or by forcing males to behave in non-masculine ways… Read more »

Many thanks, Warren. I know of so many happy teams of women, particularly in store operations, who enjoy working with one another without having to endure put-downs by men. It would be great if we could recognize men’s and women’s different strengths and celebrate them.

I have a real passion for this topic and, in fact, had been in the midst of writing a “crowd sourced” book on it before the #METOO movement made it less necessary. However, having spent my career in both agencies and retail, it’s stunning to me that women are so under-represented in leadership, influence and salaries within both camps. Like Paula, I see our presence declining. We make or influence the lion’s share of purchases (particularly in stores) and the neuroscience has irrefutably proven that we think differently than men. Common sense would prevail that it’s thereby imperative that the strategies to connect with them and influence their behavior be led by women. We’re making progress here, but not enough. I am near constantly having to represent the female POV with the store innovation work that I do, even when the target market is definitively female. Candidly, I believe a huge challenge is the male impulse to make the big calls not from a place of empathy, but from one of power and self-referencing. Of… Read more »

I think recognition can help. I recently read an article about the circular problem of getting women on boards. Boards want people who have board experience, but if you don’t get on that first board, you never get access to the opportunity. Men somehow have these opportunities and are considered “less risky” for that first board position while women are somehow not. So I think recognizing women who are doing great things in an industry is not pandering or condescending — at a minimum it is tackling an awareness issue. Supposedly we women are terrible at self-promotion, which is why we get overlooked for opportunities like boards. Part of the solution is to lessen the importance of self-promotion (if you’re seeking empathy or humility in your organization, rewarding self-promotion seems like an odd way to get that). The other part of the solution is to recognize the good work that women are doing, who might otherwise have remained invisible. I just saw Frank Blake speak at the Aptos user conference yesterday. He said “Recognition is… Read more »

It seems to me that sexism, like racism, is an institutional cultural vehicle designed and perpetuated to further the ability of a white, patriarchal class to protect its economic, social, and political interests. And, as in the case of racism, while the causes of the problem are simple enough to define, the roots of misogyny run so deep it is, as both Professor Manne and Warren point out each in their own way, extremely difficult at times to get at what the real problem is, let alone correct it. As the discussion question suggests, this is a Janus-like problem with both a conscious bias, “head,” and an unconscious — and I would argue institutional — “head.” So, what to do? Our traditional approach has been to address the visible, “head,” in the case of racism — segregation, voting rights, discriminatory hiring and promotion practices, etc. In the case of women, we’ve taken the same approach a la the failed attempts at an Equal Rights Amendment, calls for equal pay for equal work and laws that… Read more »

It all starts with the acceptance that women and men are the same. The fact is that except for the Y chromosome men have, all humans are basically equivalent. From there, individuals and organizations must be blind to gender. I’m not suggesting co-ed restroom facilities, but just about everything short of that. The key is constant promotion and reward for a neutral gender stance on all business decisions and the simultaneous punishment for any hint of gender bias.

The bottom line is that, woman or man, we’re all very far from perfect and we all need to work harder to ensure equal pay for equal work, workplaces that are free from gender (and race!) bias and a world where performance and the display of personal ethics trumps all other considerations.

I lived the corporate life for 16 years before leaving to co-found my company with my partner, Rich Kizer. Yesterday marked our 28th year in business! I saw and experienced bias in my corporate life, but I have to say the now defunct company I worked for was pretty fair when it came to the advancement of women. Maybe not all the way to the corner suite, but close. Yes, I want women to be treated fairly — I want everyone to be treated fairly — but I also want to stand on my own two feet and be celebrated for my accomplishments, not because I happen to be a woman. I also know with complete certainty that there are brilliant women out there who have to fight daily to be heard, and who are punished for speaking up. This has to stop. I remember thinking in the 80s and 90s about the progress women were making in the workplace. And we did. A little. But the fact that we are still talking about misogyny… Read more »

The most forward thinking activity I have seen happened when I was part of a committee planning an event. As we considered who to invite to be part of the program, one of the high powered men said (with no prompting or comment by me) that we needed to be sure to include a woman. This was over 20 years ago and I was very impressed that one of the men was making an effort to include a woman.

Unfortunately over the intervening 20 years I have never heard that sentiment again. How and when will the consciousness of men change?

I worked for The Limited (now L Brands) for 11 years where the majority of the executive staff, including the CEO, were women. So it’s hard for me to even comprehend the so-called barriers that exist. That aside, and forgive me for generalizing, but I find women more collaborative, less ego driven and much more intuitive on the personal side in almost any workplace scenario. And if you think about how key those attributes are today and look for them, all those characteristics will show up in any interview.

I certainly don’t think it’s about a Title 9 kind of thing for the workplace, but I think a more objective and open mindset when considering who would help your company the most in any given role certainly would be the first step towards a more equal environment. Do we really have to say that in 2018? I guess so.

The merchandising-centric good-old-days of retail are coming to a close. As technology drives the next era, new challenges for women are emerging. Initially framed as a bro-culture annoyance, this tech-shift can present a downright hostile systemic problem as numerous articles, including this wake-up call from the New Yorker, have documented.

I’ve not personally experienced roadblocks in many years, but am concerned for the next generation of tech-savvy women. Retail desperately needs them and must cultivate an environment of respect in order to keep them.

The solution to this is simple, at least in theory: recruit on merit, promote on merit, and ensure that opportunities are open to all and that all are encouraged to advance as far as their talent and desire will take them. Admittedly, putting that into practice in a world where bias does exist is somewhat more difficult.

Let’s remember that there are many great women in retail doing a fantastic job: Ulta’s Mary Dillon, Build-A-Bear’s Sharon Price John, Williams Sonoma’s Laura Alber, TJX’s Carol Meyrowitz, Apple’s Angela Ahrendts, Children’s Place’s Jane Elfers, Kingfisher’s Véronique Laury, and so on.

Interestingly, most of those retailers listed have outperformed the market! Is it because women are at the helm? Maybe. But it completely proves that women are more than up to the job!

The idea that a man can’t compliment a woman on her performance in the workplace is woefully misguided. Treating one’s female colleagues like colleagues means complimenting them (us) on our work when necessary, not on our appearance. It means not inquiring about our personal lives more than you would our male colleagues and … perhaps most of all… it means not confusing friendly professionalism with sexual intent. Women in business walk a fine line between being perceived as cold or offputting, or being perceived as bimbos who are unequipped for advancement. This is amplified for women who are part of ethnic or racial minorities. If you feel that women’s perceived sexuality is part of why they (we) come up against roadblocks in our career growth chances are, frankly, that you are part of the problem. To be part of the solution one must be willing to acknowledge where they’ve fallen short in the past — as Mr. Thayer did — and be willing to change your behavior to become part of the evolving discussion on… Read more »

Warren, you deserve credit, I think, for a forthright statement about the mind-trap that we stumble into when we try to compensate for our unconscious biases. Plenty of magazines have published “Women of the Year” special reports, and I think those articles are welcomed by most readers. Yet the act of calling out successful women as extraordinary seems to carry its own innate bias. And I’d never want to profile a businesswoman primarily because she has overcome the “misfortune” of being born to a disadvantaged gender. On balance, then, as a fellow “recovering journalist” I’m with you. It’s a good thing to periodically shine a spotlight on women who excel in the workplace. Not because it should be surprising (it’s not!) or rare, but because the conversation elevates us all and opens our minds to the true meaning of merit. Gosh, I hope I’m not being a jerk when I say this, but it’s probably up to female readers to determine the validity of the upcoming magazine coverage. If you tell true stories about individuals… Read more »

I believe it was always about control & still is. Woman were always a threat to men & still are, that’s why they hold them down. From birth, parents must teach “all” there children to respect each other equally. Not any specific type of person more than another. Boys aren’t better than girls in any way.

I don’t come from a bias background as my father’s equal partner for over 25 years was a woman. My father complimented her on a regular basis saying, “Sandy is the smartest person I ever met”! My parents treat my 4 siblings “equally,” we have 2 girls & 2 boys. In my company, besides my mother is my COO Robyn McGuinness, allow me to honor her personally. She is a visionary, she doesn’t see age or gender etc, she treats me as an equal. I am honored to have a strong woman like her who always believed in me and has my back. Gen Zers are “team players.” Hopefully you all can learn from us. Thank you!

As a female founder of a startup devoted to disruptive retail, and with 30 years of professional design experience behind me, I’ve seen and directly experienced enormous improvement in the advancement of women in the workplace. Many of these advancements are due to women who have stepped up and created opportunities for other women. And, industry efforts, such as Warren’s initiative outlined here, create opportunity such as the June cover story and The Endcap feature stories he is spearheading.

Women in today’s workplace are ready and looking for opportunities to advance their careers, companies and industries. Creating these opportunities is key to eradicating bias and advancing women.

The devil is in the details on this issue, that is what makes it so difficult. I have 20+ years in the brand marketing and retail industries. I have earned positions of respect in corporate contexts as well as being the founder and CEO of a startup in the space. Sometimes my gender is an advantage, sometimes it is neutral and sometimes it is a disadvantage — this is true for everyone, regardless of their gender. Since you’re asking for the female point of view specifically… In my career there has only been one, egregious #metoo level incident. It involved a client (who was a retailer). The details are as bad as anything else we’ve already heard, but what is worth calling out is how my colleagues (both male and female) stepped up to show their support for me, and that they got the opportunity to do that only because I told them about it. So this is my first point — the worst instances are usually perpetrated by a few men, behaving badly often,… Read more »

Wow! What great and thought-provoking posts everyone! Thank you! They’ve helped me refine my thoughts, and the June cover story will now be “Women in Retail” and not “Outstanding Women.” As you know, I have long had discomfort with the latter. So the story will be on the points so many of you have articulated here so well. I am sincerely grateful!

Kate Manne says it all, the VERY best “logic” I have heard on the subject. Having experienced misogyny myself in a number of ways over the years, now it just seems a fact of doing business. Most women have found ways and methods to persevere over misogyny or face being perceived by male peers as a _____. (Do I even need to spell this one out?) Speaking for myself and the conversations I have had with women I have worked with over time, we have learned to adapt and live with misogyny while pushing forward. The alternative? Stop inventing, thinking and creating. The tragic reality of misogyny: the value women can bring to business is lost. For some industries like tech, this reality is more than a loss; it is detrimental to the evolution of technology itself and its usefulness in human lives. The question of why are there so few women in tech answers itself. Misogyny is so pervasive it is the norm. Most of us might agree women think differently than men. In… Read more »

Leaders can eradicate the biases by openly discussing the issues. Presidents and CEOs need to share what is unacceptable in the workplace and create a vision for change. Many people, like the writer of this article, have been unsure of how to express themselves and at times felt intimidated to speak up. These conversations need to start happening and women have to be part of the conversation. That’s the only way empathy and understanding will begin.

It’s easy to say that women should feel comfortable speaking up when they feel unfairly treated, but unless we are sure that our comments will be met with support at the top level, that is still unlikely to happen. It all starts at the top.

A wonderful discussion here and I thank both Warren Thayer for starting it, and my colleagues for an intelligent and thought provoking discussion. I think a critical aspect of moving this dialogue forward to real results is recognizing large and small organizations that are leading the world in resolving a seemingly intractable issue. One such organization is LVMH Group, the Paris-based luxury conglomerate, which several years ago began a concept they called “EllesVMH” to attack this. Transparently, I previously worked in senior roles for DFS Group, one of the 70+ “Maisons” or companies in the LVMH Group. I continue to be impressed by the commitment made by senior executives throughout the Group to make the goal of “50/50 in 2020”, 50% of senior roles held by women, achievable. I watched (and participated) over the last decade as the efforts in DFS contributed to ongoing improvements in the % of women reaching senior roles in the Group. They are well on their way to achieve 50/50 by 2020 and it has not been an easy road.… Read more »